Dr Garrett E Eriksen (00:01)
Hello everyone and welcome to the Conservation Station podcast, a conservation focused podcast by the Cango Wildlife Ranch in partnership with the Cheetah Preservation Foundation and Wild Animal Volunteers. I am your host, Dr. Garrett Eriksen Thank you so much for joining us. Today's topic, very interesting topic, think, vultures and their roles in the ecosystems, their importance as

scavengers, the threats they're facing globally but especially in South Africa, and the role of education and public outreach in vulture conservation. I'm fascinated by vultures and vulture conservation in particular. I think it's such an important topic. So I sought out none other than Kerri Wolter from VulPro who works in a leader, it's a leader organization in vulture conservation, and she will introduce us to this very underappreciated

species or these underappreciated species. So, Keri is the founder and director of VulPro, which I believe is short for Vulture Program. Surely not vulture professional. It's based in Hartbeespoort in South Africa. They are renowned for their passion and dedication to the protection and rehabilitation of vultures. They have over 15 years of experience in conservation, education and research focused on African vulture species.

VulPro has gained recognition as one of the leading organizations in vulture conservation, tackling threats such as poisoning, electrocutions, and habitat loss. So Kerri, is there anything else you'd like to add to that? Or did I get the nail on the head?

Kerri Wolter (01:35)
I think we have just got a couple more years of experience under our belt now. I personally have been doing it for 21 years and think VulPro has been going now for 17 years. But otherwise, I think you've hit the nail on the head.

Dr Garrett E Eriksen (01:41)
Uh-huh.

Mmm.

OK, fantastic. So my information is only a handful of years out of date, but I'll blame Google for that one. But thanks, Kerri. OK, so yeah, I'm very excited. think what a lot of people don't realise as well is that Cango Wildlife Ranch and VulPro have a fairly long working history together with vultures and such. So maybe before we get into our primary topic about vultures and such, we can just quickly lay out that relationship.

Kerri Wolter (01:59)
Thank you.

Dr Garrett E Eriksen (02:22)
I think almost 10 years now at this point, perhaps longer. We've been helping with vulture rehabilitation and taking in vultures where needed. And of course, VulPro has been a key player in helping us make sure that our vultures are happy, healthy. And then of course, when we get to release them, which I think we did a release a bit earlier this year. And that was just beautiful to see, if I remember correctly.

Kerri Wolter (02:50)
Yes, our relationship, yeah, is about 10 years. I've known Narinda for much longer, actually, when Narinda was actually first working at the De Wildt Cheetah Centre. That's where I actually first met Narinda. But our relationship with Cango has been going on for quite some time now. And I think the two of us work really, really well together, and vultures have definitely benefited from

Dr Garrett E Eriksen (02:50)
Yes.

Kerri Wolter (03:18)
that relationship. know, when there are issues of injured or grounded vultures in the Western Cape, Cango is definitely our go-to organisation to assist us with those cases.

Dr Garrett E Eriksen (03:31)
I think we're very proud to be part of that organizational ability. And I just also mentioned for our listeners that Narinda is our assistant director of zoological affairs at the ranch. So all the bucks stops with her as far as animals go. And I'm very glad that you guys had such a good long working relationship. It's definitely, think just personally, like I'm not a vulture expert or anything, but when I see our vultures, they seem to be happy, they seem to be healthy.

You know, and I think that's all we can ask for in these kinds of situations, especially many of them. can't, they can't be released back into the wild. They just don't have the physical capability or they're injured or anything along those lines. So being able to a safe haven for them, but to also educate the public. think people, when they, when they come to our vulture exhibits and they get to see them hopping around and, you eating the meat and we have this big, I love it. one of my favorite pieces. We have this big sign where you can get the vulture wingspan. You can kind of stand right there.

And, you know, just especially your Cape vultures and your bigger vultures, they just goes on forever. know, as big as person is, they can never get the arm out right. And think it's just very cool to kind of see that, how big that wingspan is. And, you know, if you get to see them in the wild and you get to see them circling in the air on the, on the drafts and things, I think it's a very beautiful thing. Anyway, okay. I could go on. It's almost like I'm the one who's wanting to work for VulPro here. go where I go on about them.

Okay, so a couple of topics we can cover. Why don't we break it down then for listeners from the beginning. Tell us about, I think everyone knows what a vulture is, right? There's public, you know, perceptions and you got to the TV and movies. We all know there's, they sit on branches and they waiting for someone to die or something to die and they'll hop along and, you know, eat them. we've seen them in Lion King. We've seen them in Jungle Book, all those things. And there's always a very particular, I want to say,

perception around them as kind of the undertakers of the wild. But they're actually in many ways, they're kind of nature's cleanup crew. If we don't have them, we'd be like knee deep in animal carcasses in a year. So why don't you tell us a bit more then about vultures and give us kind of like, I want to say a schoolyard definition so we know we're all talking about the same animal.

Kerri Wolter (05:44)
So I think you're spot on. I think many of us have watched Walt Disney movies or whatnot. And vultures are often portrayed as the villains. If there's going to be an evil character, it's going to be a vulture. And not only that, when a vehicle breaks down, we kind of refer to these tow trucks as the vultures in the car world as well. we often perceive any vultures always

Dr Garrett E Eriksen (05:56)
Hmm.

Kerri Wolter (06:14)
have negative connotation, you know, and so I don't think that's done them any justice. And I think cinematography has also not been very kind to them. Yes, vultures are scavengers, so they only eat dead animals.

But they're incredibly, incredibly important. And I think that that perception has not really been portrayed correctly. know, often they portrayed specifically in, you know, like Walt Disney is that they're waiting for an animal to die. No, vultures don't sit and wait for an animal to die. You know, they're not sitting on a tree looking down at an animal or a person and waiting for them to die. Life goes on and they...

Dr Garrett E Eriksen (07:01)
I find that fascinating. I love reptiles. I work with reptiles a lot. Obviously, there's a lot of myths and perceptions around it, especially things like they'll hypnotize you or they'll chase you or you have to suck out the poison if they bite you, crazy things like that. Up until you said that, I didn't realize that vultures don't sit and wait. But I did perceive that if there's an animal that's sick and likely to die, that they would hang around.

Kerri Wolter (07:18)
Yeah.

Dr Garrett E Eriksen (07:29)
nearby waiting for a chance to eat it as soon as it dies. But you're saying that's not the case, which I find, you know, and again, it's how pervasive these myths are. It's not something that's ever been corrected in my perception, you know? So that's interesting. okay, so then how do they then find an animal to eat?

Kerri Wolter (07:44)
Yeah.

So firstly, so we need vultures in our ecosystem in order to consume these dead animals to prevent diseases. And I think that is important and that's important to understand. You know, they are incredibly, in fact, the most efficient scavenger on the planet. And through the quick consumption of carcasses, they're able to reduce the spread of diseases, which ultimately, if

If these dead animals are not consumed, potentially, and if they have died of an infectious disease, it could be catastrophic to our livestock, our wildlife, as well as the, you know, even human population. So I think that that is important and needs to be understood.

How they find their food is by their incredible eyesight. So vultures can see about six kilometers away from them. And what happens is they actually use indicator species. So they use crows, they use jackals, they use bateleur they use tawny eagles. So everything in a perfect world.

you know is connected and so vultures watch these indicator species and they will then react accordingly. know if a lion has made a kill for example in come your jackals, your hyenas, your crows and your vultures are thermaling above us and often way up and we don't even see them flying high up above us but they are actually looking as to what is going on on the ground and

And that is how they locate their next food source.

Dr Garrett E Eriksen (09:26)
It's kind of like how fishermen will look out for gulls in the ocean. They will look out for a flock of gulls that might be diving into an area and that might give them an indication of where to fish in some cases. So, okay, that makes sense. What is the upper limit of, sorry, might jump in all over the place here because I'm asking these questions that I've always wanted to know. What is the upper limit of a thermal, you

I want to say glide. I don't know what the official term for it is. When a vulture is right at the top of a thermal draft, what is the upper limit of that?

Kerri Wolter (09:58)
Well, the highest has been a Rüppell's griffon or Rüppell's vulture at the same height as a Jumbo aeroplane. So it is insane. The theory is that bird was actually still alive, but yeah, that is the highest recorded flight of any vulture. So you're talking about huge distances. That's obviously not the norm, but that is, yeah, it just gives you.

Dr Garrett E Eriksen (10:06)
wow.

Yeah.

Wow.

Yeah. Yeah. It's just fascinating. They could reach

that in the first place. Yeah. Okay.

Kerri Wolter (10:26)
Exactly, yeah. So,

you know, they really are the kings and queens of our skies.

Dr Garrett E Eriksen (10:32)
Hmm.

And is there, obviously, again, the cleanup crew, said the most efficient scavengers and they will come in at the end. So, you you get your primary predators, that will either, you know, either take down the animal or they'll get to the sick animal first and they'll eat, a good portion of it. And then the, vultures will come and clean up effectively afterwards. To what degree, are they going to eat almost anything or do they leave certain items out? I know I've, I've, I've read lots of reports before, like,

people who find missing hikers or something like that that have been out for days who have unfortunately passed away. And I'm talking more like in the Himalayas, not Himalayas, but more in like certain mountain ranges. And they'll be, you know, missing eyes and tongues and things like that. So obviously they go for more the softer things first. Sorry, this might be getting a bit gross for listeners, but you're listening about vultures. So we're going to get in detail. But I'm just wondering, there other parts of a carcass that they will not eat?

Kerri Wolter (11:15)
That's for us.

Dr Garrett E Eriksen (11:24)
specifically or will they eat almost anything that they can find from the carcass?

Kerri Wolter (11:31)
So each species has its unique role to play. So your Gyps species, are the vultures that we really see the most of being the African white-backed vultures, the commonest vulture species, and then also the Cape vulture. So the Cape and the white-backed is very closely related. We call them, they're in the class of the Gyps. And they are the bulk feeders. And what I mean by that is basically they're to outside feeders. So they're the ones that are going to eat

bulk of the meat and they're the ones that they're going to eat the muscle. You then have your other species, your lappet-faced vultures, they're the ones that actually eat the hard sinews, the ears, the tongue, the jaw, the skin. So believe it or not, your capes and your white-backs are not actually able to eat the hard areas compared to your lappets and your white-headeds. You then have your smaller species, your hooded vultures,

They come in at the end and they will eat like the sinews that are stuck to the bone Or little pieces of meat that have been scattered around the carcass site So they're much smaller species and they kind of clean up after the vultures And then of course you have your bearded vultures that specialise in consuming bones So, you know all the vultures together in holistic manner can consume the entire carcass obviously not all the bones but within reason

Dr Garrett E Eriksen (12:46)
You

Hmm.

Kerri Wolter (13:01)
I think it must also be understood that vultures are carnivorous species, so they don't actually eat the stomach content, but they will eat the casing of the stomach. So same thing with the intestine. So they will eat the sac and all of that that goes around and then holds the stomach content, but they're not going to actually eat the insides of the stomach.

Dr Garrett E Eriksen (13:10)
Right.

Mm. Mm.

And it's quite interesting that obviously all these different species have evolved to fit specific niches. So as you say, some are bulk meat eaters, some go for the little bits and pieces around some eat the harder pieces. And I don't know if it's in here, but I know that there's species in, I think it's North America that will take the bones and drop them from a height to crack them open to get the, to the marrow. don't know if any of our vultures do that.

Kerri Wolter (13:47)
That's the bearded vultures, so they specialize in bones. So beardeds do that, and they can also swallow, I think it's about a 20 to 30 centimeter bone, which is insane. But yes, they carry the bones and let it drop onto a hard surface in order to get the marrow.

Dr Garrett E Eriksen (13:57)
Mmm.

that's, mean, it's I've seen I've seen documentary footage of you know, like a vulture flying and dropping it and it just cracks. It's, crazy how they can evolve to fill these niches and these particular behaviors and such. So okay, I think then that gives us a good like overview of what vultures do and whatnot. you know, it is again, it's a shame that that people perceive them so terribly when, you know, I almost want to say this is

kind of indicative of our culture in general society.

Dr Garrett E Eriksen (14:33)
want to say almost from a societal point of view, we tend to look down on cleaners, on whether it's ants, whether it's vultures, whether it's dung beetles, whether it's janitors, people, people who clean up.

You know, we don't seem to mind the mess as long as we're not the ones involved in cleaning it up. So we've got this bad perception of, I want to say almost of predators in general. know, again, a lot of those Disney movies, your snakes and various other animals, anything that's not cute, anything that's not super marketable gets a bad rap. And I think vultures tend to get that a lot as well, which is unfortunate because like you said, they feel such an important role.

And if they weren't cleaning up these carcasses, as you said, again, there would be so much disease and pestilence are running around. So with that in mind, and we'll get to what their threats are, the threats that they're facing are, but I want to almost say, how is your program helping re-educate people about how they're not actually as, I want to say, evil or dirty or whatever that people are perceiving? What is the...

How do you change that perception?

Kerri Wolter (15:46)
think the big thing is, obviously at the centre itself when they come and see the birds for themselves, I think being close to them they actually see that they are very different to what their perception was or to what like cinematography has portrayed them as and that they actually are quite beautiful.

you know, when you're not at the facility, I think through imagery, think showing their magnificence and their beauty and for who they are. to see a vulture up in flight is awe-inspiring. It really is, you know. I mean, to see these huge wings and...

their majestic flight is quite something. mean, you cannot hold, you cannot that kind of take a breath in awe. And again, to see them up close, they are really magnificent. And especially, know,

when cinematography and whatever portrays them, often it's after a carcass, so they are dirty, know? They've just put their heads down the carcass. But when you don't always see them like that, and you actually see them being clean, and you see their characters.

I think that's really what changes people is being up close, seeing that their personalities, seeing their kind of their peaceful demeanor that there aren't these crazy vicious, scary birds and that they are pretty comical.

think that's really what it is.

Dr Garrett E Eriksen (17:35)
I think many people would think of vulture as comical, I suppose with any animal is up for some kind of shenanigans or doing something tripping over themselves.

Kerri Wolter (17:45)
Absolutely, you know, they're like a whole bunch of toddlers in kindergarten. know, and when one has one thing they all want it and they all squabble and even at a feeding site you'll have a female, dominant female that comes in and she's going to take charge of that carcass and...

she's going to do high stepping and kicking and she's going to run around and try and chase everyone off the carcass until she eventually decides to eat off it. I mean, I think half the time they end up fighting more than they are actually eating off the carcass. And it is, very comical to watch, you know, how they...

how they operate and their behaviors. And that is not shown generally, you know. So I think from changing people's perceptions, it really is, it's about...

you know, showing the birds, showing their behaviors, not showing them feeding off a carcass, because yes, we know that that's what they do, but to show another side of them, to show them, you know, raising a chick, incubating a chick, feeding a chick, how massive these birds are, but yet how gentle, sensitive and loving they actually are. And in fact, us as human beings could potentially learn something.

Dr Garrett E Eriksen (18:43)
Mm.

Kerri Wolter (19:07)
from their parental behaviour. Seeing the gentle side, I think is really important in changing the perceptions that people have.

Dr Garrett E Eriksen (19:21)
Yeah, think, again, that's the problem with when we have, I want to say again, the less cute animals, people tend to perceive that their main undesirable trait is carried out through everything. don't perceive them as good parents. They don't perceive them as kind and loving. I mean, again, I suppose if you went up and tried to the vulture, probably wouldn't have a good time, but at least not a wild vulture.

Kerri Wolter (19:43)
Thank

Dr Garrett E Eriksen (19:45)
But I think that's perhaps why VulPro and Cango get along so well is because we have a similar approach, right? We want to take the mystery and the fear out of animal, not just encounters, but animal existence and show that there's more to them than what our perception is and that they're important. And we need to understand our relationship with them and that their existence is not predicated on our decision, whether they are.

you know, cute or not, or necessary or not. They exist because they exist and we should allow them that existence, regardless of our opinion of them. And in fact, encourage it. Which then I think splits us nicely to what threats are they facing? You know, I briefly covered them a bit earlier, poisoning, power lines, habitat destruction. I think a lot of animals are facing it, but I think that vultures in particular are

really, really suffering under these threats, because they are, and I want to say an overlooked species. know, people will, again, higher profile species, will, they might make quick changes for depending on the result of it, but vultures, again, perhaps because of perception, and because they're the ones at the end of the cleanup crew, they tend to be forgotten a lot more. You know, what, you guys are on the forefront there, what's happening?

Kerri Wolter (21:04)
So look, the biggest threat to vultures globally is poisoning. But one has to understand that there are facets to poisoning. So poisoning could be the threat or it could be a method. So if we talk about poisoning as a threat, that would be, I would say, around the poaching. I think we've all heard about poaching of rhinos, elephants, lions, and whatnot.

But vultures often find a less poisoned carcass before the targeted species. also, what is so catastrophic about these events is it's not just one lions or two lions, for example. It could be 600 vultures that are poisoned at one site. Also, your poachers are trying to get rid of vultures as indicators to a poached animal.

And so they are directly persecuting and trying to get rid of vultures as indicators because...

Dr Garrett E Eriksen (22:03)
Of course, because

the vultures are indicating where like a rhino or an elephant carcass might be to the Rangers. So, wow, I don't even consider that. Yeah, that's terrible.

Kerri Wolter (22:14)
Exactly. But now not only do you have that, these same poachers are seeing there's a financial gain to a dead vulture. And with the increase in vulture harvesting or vulture trade for belief-based purposes, vultures are obviously not being, it's not a secondary poisoning event anymore. Now it is, and this is where the threat actually is.

Dr Garrett E Eriksen (22:22)
Hmm.

Kerri Wolter (22:41)
the use of vultures for belief-based purposes, where vultures are actually being sought after poison for the belief-based muti trade. And they are being killed. And this is actually on the increase and, in fact, in some parts of South Africa. It has led to localized extinction.

A threat that has been addressed for many years, I can't take any credit for it. It's been addressed by Dr. Gerhard Verdoorn Obviously, it's not 100 % addressed, but he has made huge headway in it.

where farmers are targeting your problem animals like jackals, caracals, leopards, I'm sure you guys deal with it with your cheetah work, is they put less carcass out for those targeted animals, as I said earlier on, and vultures end up locating it. And that's what we call secondary poisoning. So that the threat is actually human-wildlife conflict. So one has to understand from a poisoning perspective, there are different elements, whether it's a threat

Dr Garrett E Eriksen (23:27)
Mm.

Kerri Wolter (23:47)
whether it's a method. And then the last issue with poisoning is that of lead poisoning and lead toxicity. And this is often not intentional at all. And this is where hunters or reserve managers, farmers are using leaded ammunition and...

Those animals are then exposed or placed at feeding sites for vultures to consume and they then in turn are being indirectly and without knowing being poisoned by lead toxicity. so poisoning is really, really a big issue. I think for us in South Africa, one of the biggest issues besides belief-based purposes is power line collisions and electrocutions.

We see cases almost on a daily basis and we estimate we're probably only finding maybe 10 % of these individuals.

And many, if they don't lose their lives, you know, at the electrocution site, and if they survive, they are lost to the wild populations because often they lose limbs or their limbs have to be, their wings, for example, have to be amputated in order to save their lives. So they are lost and taken out of the wild population. So I would say those are the biggest issues, direct persecution.

Kerri Wolter (25:13)
unfortunately, all of these threats

are all human induced. Vultures, you know, they can withstand diseases, viruses, anything that is not man-made. The minute man gets involved, the results are potentially catastrophic to the bird.

Dr Garrett E Eriksen (25:34)
was saying to Mike Dennison from WESSA in one of our previous interviews that it's all problems in nature in this regard are simultaneously created and solvable by people. We just continuously create, we just make our own beds and then complain about sleeping in them.

And all of this, it's the, as you say, the poisoning, each one of those, I mean, you know, these are animals that eat rotting carcasses, they've got very hardy constitutions, and yet we're still putting out food in such a way that will directly kill them and our power lines as well, our habitat destruction. I was actually wondering the place we said there's localized extinction, are they seeing an uptick in, you know, I want to say disease and other issues because of the lack of animals eating the carcasses in the area?

Kerri Wolter (26:24)
I don't think they've looked at it that closely. It's in some reserves that it's happening.

Dr Garrett E Eriksen (26:29)
Okay, so it's

not widespread enough yet to really be, I mean it's an issue, but yeah.

Kerri Wolter (26:35)
Yeah, not yet, but they're definitely starting, you know, this year they've seen the localized extinction of white-headed vultures, for example, in Zululand. Whitebacks are being decimated. Lappets I think you're looking at two or three pairs that are left. So I think, you know, as we've seen with the Asian vulture crisis, it took a few years for the devastation to actually be seen and to be noted.

Dr Garrett E Eriksen (27:00)
That's unfortunately, humans, we're so short sighted. It's one of the reasons why we're in a climate change problem, because we will cause the trouble 20 years ago and then only see the results now. And then, what do we do now? But in meantime, we're still creating more problems now that we'll also only see in 20 years time. So yeah, we need to get a bit more long term in our thinking. But OK, so very, very simple question with, I'm sure, incredibly complicated answer. What do we do?

Kerri Wolter (27:30)
think the first thing is we need to have an appreciation for the birds, you know, and I think part of our work and the work that you guys do is we need to create an emotional connection because, you know, I can, you know...

give you the theory as to how important vultures are, but so what? At the end of the day, how does it impact you? How does it impact me? you know, yes, it doesn't. And again, I can tell you how it's going to, but unless you are connected emotionally to a species, how does it actually draw at your heartstrings? And the only way to do that is to create an emotional connection. So my feeling, you know, and my reach to the

is you know go visit facilities reputable facilities go and learn about the birds and go and see how different they are to actually our perception and to what we think they are and then from there volunteer or support organizations get involved be part of the change and I think that is really important is really be a part of the change

unite with us and work with us to create a legacy.

Dr Garrett E Eriksen (28:55)
I that's a very, very important point. And I think as well, while you were saying that, was thinking, know, and I'm sure you guys do this, but school groups are always a big one. You know, there'll always be a handful of kids who visit these things who get inspired in some way or another. But I think being able to create those relationships is so, important. And I think kids are a lot easier to work with in that regard. They find things a lot more fascinating. I think we should take a lesson from that. As jaded adults, we should be a lot more

willing to be awe-inspired. We should be a lot more willing to put aside our preconceived "ew grosses" or whatever and just see the animal for what it is and what it does and appreciate it. Even if you, I use myself as an example, I have been terrified of spiders since I was a child. Never really liked them. I've had a handful of experiences. If I told the stories now, people would, I think, start themselves not liking spiders as much because I've had scares at certain times, know, try to open a tap.

to drink out of it and there comes a spider almost into my mouth, things like that. So I have my reasons, but I early on decided, and I think it's just by virtue of being here at Cango for so long, that just because I don't like it doesn't mean it deserves to be harmed or anything along those lines. And I've gone out of my way, I've never fully gotten over spiders, but I've gone out of my way to build a better connection with them or at the very least understand them. I've got a few in my room and I hate mosquitoes more than anything else.

So I let the spiders take care of that. know, they're serving their purpose. I was at a museum once and there was a spider expert there and he had a tarantula and he's like, come put on now, you know, prior, a few prior years I'll be running away screaming, but I said, okay, you know what? I'm going to do this. Put the tarantula on me. And I put it on, I let it crawl up me and everything. And you know, they even had a little thing of whiskey there. You can take a shot of Dutch courage beforehand just to make sure, you know, I let it crawl on me and I put it back. I promptly went into another room and we're like, but

I've worked on creating that connection with an animal that I don't like or don't understand. And I've worked to understand it. I've worked to improve myself. And again, I don't like them, but I understand and appreciate them. And I will go out of my way to if there's a spider in my room and I don't want it there, I will try and get it out safely without hurting it, without crushing it, because it serves its purpose. And again, it even matter. It doesn't need my permission. I shouldn't have to sit there and go.

Oh, you do your job spider here is permission for you. I will not kill you. should just unless it's causing me harm. Okay, in my case causing me psychological harm. So I have to remove it, but I don't need to, to hurt it. And I think it's so important with vultures as well. And there, you know, there, I want to say in people's minds, step up from spiders. It's a lot easier to create a connection with a vulture than is a spider. So people should be willing to go in and explore those options and, and, and change that. And I think that's why museums exist. That's why

I want to say reputable museums exist, that's why reputable zoos exist, reputable conservation centers, because the purpose behind them is to create that connection and that understanding. And I think all the problems they're facing, the poisoning, the power lines, the habitat destruction, et cetera, if we understand better and have that relationship, we're less likely to then cause that harm and even, as you say, to volunteer to help and to do more and to not let

know, things fall to the wayside just because we don't understand or appreciate them. And I think even, you know, let's say it's not just up to the general public. If you have someone who's working at, you know, Eskom or one of the big electricity companies somewhere in the continent, and they have a personal passion for making sure that vultures are okay, maybe they will lead a project or at least, you know, a couple of presentations or something to the rest of their company to...

Or maybe they'll have a great idea. I've invented this new unit that will protect vultures from crashing into our thing, and then they make money from that. There's so much that could be done. And I was saying again to Mike, it's economics at the end of the day as well. Everything happens because of our perceived cost or profit from an action. But that can also be an emotional cost or profit. We can benefit

emotionally and psychologically from creating these connections and protecting these animals and realizing where we are in the food chain. Sorry, waxed poetical there, but you know, it's very important, I think. And I love I love it when people come to our facility and see these animals and, have these connections. And I'm sure you do as well.

Kerri Wolter (33:24)
Absolutely, I mean to see people and their perceptions change and the first thing we get is they're not actually that ugly. Always, always it's the first thing people say and they go, they're actually really beautiful. And that's what I love and the next thing is are they clean?

Dr Garrett E Eriksen (33:31)
Right?

Kerri Wolter (33:41)
You know, there's a whole misconception that vultures, you know, stay dirty. And if you think about it, their feathers have to be meticulously cleaned for perfect flight. So they've got to be clean. And in fact, I always laugh, you know, when we give talks to kids and we say, who washes their, who goes and bars after every meal? And of course, nobody does. And we go, but vultures do. So which one of the species is cleaner?

Dr Garrett E Eriksen (34:05)
Yeah.

That's a very good point, yeah.

Kerri Wolter (34:13)
No, so it's just a perception. And I also think, you know, everyone needs to understand, as you know, you talk about spiders, everything is connected. Absolutely every species, fauna, flora, absolutely everything is connected.

Dr Garrett E Eriksen (34:17)
Yeah.

100%. And I think the more people spend time in these spaces, even if it's just being able to go for a hike once a week in the woods nearby, or just to their local, you if they don't have the ability to hike or you're living in big city, go to your park, but don't just sit there and, you know, stare at everyone in the park, go look at your tree. I used to do that all the time. I'd go into the parks, I would go look at the tree and I'd see all the ants and I just, I just, you know, even if it's a busy park in an industrial area, I can still, still

animals doing their thing and you see life forming and you can you can create that relationship for yourself even something as small as that and appreciation. So no, I completely I completely agree. And again, I think people sitting in a in a city, you know, they might think, oh, what does this got to do with me? There aren't any vultures in my area. Number one, I think that there probably are vultures in their area. They just don't see them. And number two, even if there aren't the impact of what happens in our rural areas directly impacts us everything from crop generation to

I want to say the workers' health, who work on the farms, there's a lot of things that impact our ability to live in our comfortable bubble cities. Kerri so in the interest of time, because we could talk about this forever, I think you and I are both very passionate about changing people's perceptions, I'd like to move on to our news segment. And there's a very interesting news I've heard about recently where it seems you are up for an award.

Kerri Wolter (35:43)
100%.

Dr Garrett E Eriksen (36:01)
which online they're calling it the Nobel Prize of Conservation. But it's the 2025 Indianapolis Prize. Can you tell us about that? Sounds fascinating.

Kerri Wolter (36:15)
Sure, I think as you say, it's been classified as a Nobel Prize. The winning take is $250,000. Wow. Which is a substantial amount of money to any conservation project. Yeah.

So yeah, there's 44 of us that are short that have been nominated and then obviously that will come down to the finalists. I think that only happens next year September. Obviously the finalists get chosen sooner but I think the gala event is next year September. But I mean you're talking about top top conservationists on multiple species you know throughout the world so

think quite a slim chance of becoming a finalist, but I'm still very proud of being nominated and being up there with 44 top world conservationists and putting vultures out there. I think to me that's what it's about. It's not about myself at all. It's about putting vultures out there, getting vultures out in the limelight.

And also showcasing that it's a team effort. It's never an individual effort. Even if an individual is nominated, it really is a tribute to the team that has allowed the organization and often the person at the top being recognized. But it never is a one-

band and I think that is important. So for me it's really as it's about the birds, getting the birds out there and showing what the VulPro team has actually done and is doing.

Dr Garrett E Eriksen (38:04)
I think it's very important to emphasize that teamwork aspect because again, I almost want to say it's not just the team on the ground doing the thing, but it's also the support of the public who are in their own way part of the team and they help and support and they grow with that. So your accomplishments are their accomplishments and vice versa. that's great. And we have the same thing at Kanga. All of our accreditations or awards are always because our team has just pulled so hard together.

and support of the public just brings us forward there. So I completely agree. And I think you guys should definitely be super proud of yourselves. And you know what, when you win, I'd love to do a follow up. So, you know, in the future, yeah, I'll pencil it in. I'll pencil it in for next September. I'll check with you. But you know, even if even if you don't win, I think it'll be great to maybe chat about it, because I'm sure between now and then, you know, things will change and just the

I would think just being nominated puts you a bit more into not only the public eye, but into the network of other conservation facilities. you know, it's one of the also the reasons we're doing this podcast. I want to start creating networks and conversations with groups and people that might otherwise not have the opportunity to have these conversations and create these networks. And for our listeners, I would love for our listeners to walk away from this, being able to, you know, again, not only just receive a bit of an education about certain aspects of

animals and conservation and everything, but also be able to create a connection and network with other groups and people and just concepts and ideas that maybe they didn't before. And maybe even, you know, someone sitting there thinking they want to get into conservation as a career, and maybe something like this will inspire them to do that, you know. So I can only hope. And as you say, everything's connected, right? Everything is interconnected and working together. That's what we're going for. Fantastic. Well,

Kerri, then I think the final portion of our show here is about how listeners can get involved. what can, if I'm just a regular person, I'm listening to this podcast and I want to go, wow, I'd love to help out with vultures and VulPro and just support. What can I do? So what can your average person do to help you

Kerri Wolter (40:20)
Okay, think the first thing is to contact us and you can get all our details on our website. And yeah, come get involved, come volunteer. We love getting volunteers. You can come, you know, spend two, three weeks with us. You can help out in the...

field season, busy field season. So you can help undertake tree nesting surveys, cliff nesting monitoring. You can get involved in captive breeding and you can also be a regular volunteer if there's a vulture that needs to be rescued. We're trying to build up a volunteer base. So join our volunteer group, know, which you'll become a member. You'll be added to our WhatsApp group and we will offer training. And we're always, always looking for keen volunteers that are

eager to put one day aside, maybe it's one day a month, whatever, come to the facility and come unite with us and be part of the change.

Dr Garrett E Eriksen (41:17)
And how would they get hold of you if they wanted to get involved?

Kerri Wolter (41:23)
So I think the best is if you go to our website, I'll give you our website address, is www.vulpro.com and it's VulPro, V-U-L-P-R-O. Or you can email Nicole, which is admin @ vulpro.com. Pretty easy email address. And I think that's probably the easiest way of connecting with us.

Dr Garrett E Eriksen (41:45)
Fantastic. And I will share all these links in the show notes, including the social media links and such, so you guys can give them a follow and see the work they do. And I think there's some excellent, I've seen some great Instagram clips and things. Again, it's about that awe-inspiring beauty of these animals, so fantastic. And Kerri our final, final question, I ask all our guests this. I wanna say, what is your...

highlighted animal. So if you had to pick one animal that you want to highlight out of your life, out of your career, that you want people to know more about specifically, what would that animal be?

Kerri Wolter (42:21)
It always has to be Percy. I think everyone knows Percy, who knows VulPro to me, know, Percy was and is the reason why VulPro is here today. He's now 18 years old and he was the one who changed me. And this is why VulPro exists. know, having Percy when he was 10 days old in my hand.

I realized the fragility of the species, but not only that, I realized that vultures are reliant on man for their survival. And so to me, if there's anyone, it's Percy who's a Cape vulture, and he was my change.

Dr Garrett E Eriksen (43:04)
That's

beautiful. Percy the Cape vulture. you know what? The fact that he's responsible for VulPro and everything again shows the power of that connection and just him existing propelled you forward like that. And that's fantastic.

Kerri Wolter (43:17)
Absolutely.

Dr Garrett E Eriksen (43:19)
Great.

Thank you so much, Kerri I think this has been a fantastic interview and I'm at a loss for words, which is unusual for me, about how I think strongly feel about it and everything. So yes, thank you. Thank you so much. I'll put all the details and everything into the show notes. If anyone would like to get in touch with us here at the podcast, you can email podcast @ cango.co.za, that's C-A-N-G-O.co.za.

And the website for the podcast is conservationstation.co.za. And yeah, everything else will be in the show notes. And we hope to see you next show. Thank you so much again, Kerri, and have a great one.

Kerri Wolter (43:56)
My pleasure, you too. Cheers.